_James Alverson _____+
| (1755 - 1840)
_Pleasant Alverson __|_Mary Allegree ______
| (1783 - 1853) m 1831 (1763 - ....)
_Benjamin Crouch Alverson _|
| (1833 - 1907) m 1858 |
| | _William Jordan _____+
| | | (1750 - 1817)
| |_Katheryn Jordon ____|_Lucy Stith _________
| (1799 - 1865) m 1831 (1761 - 1802)
_Benjamin Emmet Alverson _|
| (1870 - 1946) m 1892 |
| | _Michael Cain _______+
| | | (1761 - 1856) m 1796
| | _John Cain __________|_Elizabeth Warman ___
| | | (1797 - 1869) m 1820 (.... - 1859)
| |_Olive Jane Cain __________|
| (1837 - 1907) m 1858 |
| | _Henry Dismore Sr.___+
| | | (1753 - 1816) m 1780
| |_Olive Dismore ______|_Martha Smith _______
| (1800 - 1881) m 1820 (1760 - ....)
|
|--Mable Leona Alverson
| (1903 - 1958)
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
| _Joseph Fowler ____________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Lucy Coleman Fowler _____|
(1874 - 1950) m 1892 |
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Mary Rush ________________|
|
| _____________________
| |
|_____________________|_____________________
__
|
__|__
|
__|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
_Mikolai Bertasz ____|
| (1889 - 1966) |
| | __
| | |
| | __|__
| | |
| |__|
| |
| | __
| | |
| |__|__
|
|
|--Nikolai Bertasz
| (1918 - 1969)
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
| __|
| | |
| | | __
| | | |
| | |__|__
| |
|_Roza Unknown _______|
(1892 - 1972) |
| __
| |
| __|__
| |
|__|
|
| __
| |
|__|__
[7170]
There seems to be a majority of sources that indicate that she was sister, not daughter of Fulk; and possibly, somehow, a niece of Gilbert, Count of Brionne. I will stick with Turton, even though he is somewhat unreliable, because the other pedigrees don't seem very clear (and reliable) to me either.
!Following is a post-em from Curt Hofemann giving, conflicting informationon Gunnora:
First, it's Aunou, not Anjou . . .
Flwg are my notes:
parents: Gonnor (Gunnor) was the daughter of Baldric the Teuton, and a niece of Gilbert, Count of Brionne. [Ref: McBride2 citing Burke's p118-120, CP VI p498-503, Wurts p47-70], father: Baudri "the German", father of Nicholas de Bacqueville, Fulk de Aunou, Robert de Courcy, andGunnor [Ref: TAF 21 Aug 2000 citing: Keats-Rohan "Domesday Book and the Malets: Patrimony and the Private Histories of Public Lives" in *Nottingham Medieval Studies* xli (1997), 18] Gunnora, sister of Fulk deAunou is not daughter of Osmund, but of Baudri. [Ref: TAF 26 Aug 2000] Fulk d'Aunou had a sister Gunnor [Ref: TAF: 21 Aug 2000]
Gilbert's wife, Gonnor (Gunnor) was the daughter of Baldric the Teuton, and a niece of Gilbert, Count of Brionne. [Ref:McBride2 citing Burke's p118-120, CP VI p498-503, Wurtsp47-70]
She (Elisabeth Van Houts) also argues that Robert confused things, that it was Baudri "the German", father of Nicholas de Bacqueville, Fulk de Aunou, Robert de Courcy, and Gunnor wife of Gilbert Crispin, who married the niece of Duchess Gunnor, while it was Nicholas's wife, Gertrude, who was niece of Gilbert of Brionne. [Ref: TAF 21 Aug2000 citing: Keats-Rohan "Domesday Book and the Malets: Patrimony and the Private Histories of Public Lives" in *Nottingham Medieval Studies* xli(1997), 18] note: this implies the Fulkwas Gunnora's brother, not father...Curt
While there is extensive debate, it is not generally felt (sic) that Fulk d'Aunou, son of Baudri the German is the same as Fulk "de Alneio", son of Osmund of Centemvilliers. (For example, Wace appears to distinguish the two toponyms.) Thus Gunnora, sister of Fulk de Aunou is not daughter of Osmund, but of Baudri. Likewise Gunnorade Aunou married, not Gilbert de Brionne, but Gilbert Crispin. Gilbert de Brionne comes into play as supposed uncle of Baudri's wife, although this seems chronologically impossible... [Ref: TAF 26 Aug 2000]
Based on the fact that Fulk d'Aunou had a sister Gunnor, Keats-Rohan has suggested that these two somehow got switched, and that it was Baldric who married the Gunnorid, while Nicholas married Gilbert's niece. This works better chronologically, since Gilbert de Brionne was two generations after Gunnor, his niece three and Nicholas four, while the wife of Nicholas would be just one, or perhaps two generation removed from Gunnor. Reversing them as Keats-Rohan suggests makes the wife four, and the husband three or four (because some of the nieces appear to have been grand nieces). [Ref: TAF: 21 Aug 2000]
Regards,
Curt[jweberBRI.ged]
_William Darell ________+
| (1312 - ....)
_Marmaduke Darell ___|_Elizabeth _____________
| (1334 - ....) (1319 - ....)
_William Darell _____|
| (1359 - 1387) |
| | _Geoffrey Pigott _______+
| | | (1298 - 1347)
| |_Alice Pigot ________|_Johanna de Hawkeswell _
| (1336 - ....) (1304 - ....)
_William Darell _____|
| (1384 - 1463) |
| | ________________________
| | |
| | _____________________|________________________
| | |
| |_Emma _______________|
| (1363 - ....) |
| | ________________________
| | |
| |_____________________|________________________
|
|
|--George Darell
| (1419 - 1473)
| ________________________
| |
| _Lawrence Calston ___|________________________
| | (1330 - 1356)
| _Thomas Calston _____|
| | (1375 - ....) m 1398|
| | | ________________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|________________________
| |
|_Elizabeth Calston __|
(1400 - 1463) |
| ________________________
| |
| _____________________|________________________
| |
|_Joan Childrey ______|
(1375 - 1399) m 1398|
| ________________________
| |
|_____________________|________________________
[2409]
[S937]
[Plantagenet Descent]
[2410]
[S938]
Descendant of.....
[2411]
[S938]
Descendant of.....
[2412]
[S941]
[Ancestry of David A. Blocher: Maternal]
[2413]
[S944]
[Ancestry of Dennis Eugene King]
[2414]
[S939]
[Plantagenet Descent]
_Thomas H. Holcomb _____________+
| (1526 - ....)
_Gilbert Holcomb ____________|_Margaret Trenthurffe __________
| (1565 - 1633) m 1600 (1535 - 1576)
_Thomas Holcomb _____|
| (.... - 1657) m 1634|
| | _Peter De Courtenay ____________+
| | | (1536 - 1606) m 1554
| |_Anne De Courtenay __________|_Katherin (Catherine) Reskimer _
| (1573 - 1642) m 1600 (1541 - ....)
_Nathaniel Holcomb __|
| (1648 - 1739) m 1669|
| | ________________________________
| | |
| | _Thomas Ferguson ____________|________________________________
| | | (1584 - ....)
| |_ELIZABETH Ferguson _|
| (.... - 1679) m 1634|
| | ________________________________
| | |
| |_ELIZABETH __________________|________________________________
| (1586 - ....)
|
|--Margaret Holcomb
| (1670 - ....)
| _Thomas Bliss __________________
| | (.... - 1636) m 1582
| _Thomas Bliss _______________|________________________________
| | (1585 - 1649) m 1614
| _Nathaniel Bliss ____|
| | (1622 - 1654) m 1646|
| | | _John Hulines __________________+
| | | | (1565 - 1639) m 1588
| | |_MARGARET Lawerence Hulines _|_Margaret Lawrence _____________
| | (1595 - 1684) m 1614 (1559 - 1621)
|_Mary Bliss _________|
(1651 - ....) m 1669|
| ________________________________
| |
| _Samuel Chapin ______________|________________________________
| | (1598 - 1675) m 1622
|_Catherine Chapin ___|
(1630 - 1711) m 1646|
| ________________________________
| |
|_Cicely Penney ______________|________________________________
(1600 - 1682) m 1622
[11764]
SOURCE: McCracken, George E., "Thomas Holcombe's Earlier Posterity," The American Genealogist Vol. 57, No. 2 (April 1981), p. 71.
McPherson, Mrs. Lewin D. (Hannah Elizabeth Weir), The Holcombes, Nation Builders, A Family Having as Great a Part as Any in the Making of All North American Civilization, Their Biographies, Genealogies and Pedigrees (n. p.: n. pub., 1947), p. 101.
_Alard De Orreby ____
| (1110 - ....)
_Herbert I De Orreby _|_____________________
| (1140 - ....)
_Philip De Orreby _________|
| (1160 - 1230) |
| | _Simon II De Kyme ___+
| | | (1094 - ....)
| |_Agnes De Kyme _______|_Agnes De Lindsay ___
| (1140 - ....) (1095 - ....)
_Phillip De Orreby __|
| (1190 - 1230) m 1227|
| | _____________________
| | |
| | _Walter De Coventry __|_____________________
| | | (1140 - 1235)
| |_Emma De Coventre _________|
| (1165 - 1230) |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_MARGERY _____________|_____________________
| (1145 - ....)
|
|--Agnes De Orreby
|
| _____________________
| |
| ______________________|_____________________
| |
| _Roger (Aylmer) De Mohaut _|
| | (.... - 1260) |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |______________________|_____________________
| |
|_Leuca de Mohault ___|
m 1227 |
| _____________________
| |
| ______________________|_____________________
| |
|_Cecilia D'Aubigny ________|
|
| _____________________
| |
|______________________|_____________________
_____________________
|
_____________________|_____________________
|
_Conrad Marion Simpson _|
| (1859 - 1907) m 1883 |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_____________________|_____________________
|
_David Earl Simpson _|
| (1892 - 1949) m 1912|
| | _Abraham Ward _______+
| | | (1799 - 1882) m 1820
| | _Thomas A. Ward _____|_Anna Taylor ________
| | | (1830 - 1908) m 1864 (1803 - 1880)
| |_Clara Celeste Ward ____|
| (1864 - 1957) m 1883 |
| | _____________________
| | |
| |_Sarah J. Dierdorf __|_____________________
| (1843 - 1934) m 1864
|
|--Carl Meade Simpson
| (1913 - 1997)
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
| ________________________|
| | |
| | | _____________________
| | | |
| | |_____________________|_____________________
| |
|_Edith B. Means _____|
(1891 - 1970) m 1912|
| _____________________
| |
| _____________________|_____________________
| |
|________________________|
|
| _____________________
| |
|_____________________|_____________________
_Aubri Count of Gatinais ________________________
| (0950 - 0990)
_Geoffroy I "Ferreol" Count of Gatinais __|_________________________________________________
| (0970 - 1000) m 0999
_Geoffrey II "Ferreol" Count of Gatinois _|
| (1000 - 1046) m 1035 |
| | _Alberic II Count of Macon ______________________+
| | | (0953 - 0981)
| |_Beatrix (or Beatrice) de Macon __________|_Ermentrude (Irmtrude) De Roucy _________________
| (0975 - ....) m 0999
_Ives (Ivo) de Taillebois _|
| (1036 - 1094) m 1074 |
| | _GEOFFREY I Grisconelle "Grisegonnelle" D'Anjou _+
| | | (0958 - 0987)
| | _Foulques III (Fulk) "the Black" D'Anjou _|_Adelaide De Vermandois _________________________
| | | (0967 - 1040) m 1000 (.... - 0976)
| |_Ermangarde (Hermengarde) D'Anjou ________|
| m 1035 |
| | _________________________________________________
| | |
| |_Lorraine Hildegarde (de Metz) D'Anjou ___|_________________________________________________
| (0964 - 1046) m 1000
|
|--Lucy (Lucia) Taillebois
| (1074 - 1136)
| _________________________________________________
| |
| __________________________________________|_________________________________________________
| |
| _Uchtred _________________________________|
| | |
| | | _________________________________________________
| | | |
| | |__________________________________________|_________________________________________________
| |
|_Lucia of Mercia __________|
(.... - 1136) m 1074 |
| _EDMUND (Edgar) The Peaceful King Of England ____+
| | (0944 - 0975) m 0964
| _ETHELRED II King Of England _____________|_ELFRIDA (Aelfthyth) Queen Of England ___________
| | (0968 - 1016) (.... - 1000)
|_Elfgifu Of England ______________________|
|
| _________________________________________________
| |
|_Elgifu Unknown __________________________|_________________________________________________
[6213]
Lucy, living 1130, widow sucessively, of Ives Taillebois and Roger FitzGerold; m. probably c 1098 Ranulph III le Meschin. [Ancestral Roots]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
He [Ranulph le Meschin] married Lucy, widow of Roger FITZ-GEROLD (by whomshe was mother of William de Roumare, afterwards Earl of Lincoln). Hedied 17 or 27 January 1128/9, and was buried at St. Werburg's, Chester.The Countess Lucy confirmed, as his widow, the grant of the Manor of Spalding to the monks of that place (f). [Complete Peerage III:166,XIV:170, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]
(f) She paid 500 marks to King Henry in 1130 for license to remainunmarried for 5 years.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following copied from www.linacre.ox.ac.uk/research/prosop/PRSPN2.stm,
gives the latest research on the ancestry of Lucy:
Antecessor Noster:
The Parentage of Countess Lucy Made Plain
A lot of ink has flowed on the subject, but there can be no doubt thatthe 'mysterious' Countess Lucy of Chester was William Malet'sthrice-married granddaughter, the daughter of Robert Malet's sister andTurold the Sheriff of Lincoln (dead by 1079). The suggestion was firstmade by R. Kirk in 1888. As N. Sumner has more recently observed: 'Thisaccount has the merit of explaining why the lordship of Spalding andother places in Lincolnshire were held after Ivo's death not by Beatrice,his direct heir and the daughter of his marriage to Lucy, but by thelater husbands of Lucy, Roger fitz Gerold and Ranulph Meschines.' It isclear from her charters that Lucy was an heiress; as was to be expected,her estates passed to the sons of her second and third marriages. Kirk'swork was based upon conjecture, and contained a number of errors. Thequestion of Lucy's parentage has therefore remained open. Nevertheless,there is proof that Kirk was right.
A spurious charter of Crowland Abbey made Turold of Bucknall (theSheriff) the founder of the priory of Spalding as a cell of Crowland. Italso called Turold brother of Godiva countess of Mercia, but subsequentlydescribed Godiva's son Earl Algar as Turold's cognatus (cousin). Agenealogia fundatoris of Coventry Abbey made Lucy a daughter of EarlAlgar and sister and heiress of earls Edwin and Morcar. The PeterboroughChronicle and the Pseudo-Ingulf's Chronicle of Crowland both made Lucythe daughter of Algar and niece or great-niece of Turold. We know thatWilliam Malet was half-English, so these traditions probably boil down toa relationship between Countess Godiva and William's English mother.
In 1153 a charter [RRAN, III, 180] of the future Henry II for Lucy's sonRanulf II of Chester referred to her uncles Robert Malet and Alan ofLincoln. Alan of Lincoln was the successor, and almost certainly the son,of Domesday's Alfred of Lincoln. Chronologically, it is most unlikelythat Alan was Lucy's uncle. It was probably another of Alfred's sons whomDomesday described as Alfred nepos [nephew or grandson] of Turold, thenholding a fee which was certainly thereafter held with the rest of thesenior Alfred's fee by his heir Alan. Domesday provides a furtherindication that Alfred senior married another of William Malet'sdaughters when it names a William as Alfred's predecessor in two of hismanors. Other parts of each of these manors (Linwood and Rothwell) wereheld in 1086 by Durand Malet, who was probably William's son. It seemsthat Henry's charter can be explained by seeing a scribe, perhaps insearch of rhetorical balance, commit the error of ascribing two uncles toLucy, instead of a niece (Lucy) and a nephew (Alan of Lincoln) to RobertMalet, who was uncle to both.
Turold is evidenced in Domesday Book as a benefactor of Crowland Abbey,to which he gave a parcel of land at Bucknall. The abbey also held landat Spalding that had probably been granted to it by Earl Algar and thereis evidence to suggest that Turold the Sheriff gave further land there tothe abbey of St Nicholas, Angers, before 1079. Lucy and her first husbandIvo Taillebois subsequently founded, or perhaps re-founded, a priory atSpalding subject to St Nicholas, Angers. A revealing phrase from theRegister of Spalding Priory reads: 'mortuo quia dicto Thoraldo relictasibi herede Lucia predicta' [at his death Turold left an heir, theaforesaid Lucy]. The word heres, 'heir', was often used of the child whowas to inherit his/her father's property. Lucy later confirmed the giftsof all three of her husbands: 'pro redempcione anime patris mei et matrismee et dominorum meorum et parentum meorum' [for the souls of my fatherand mother, my husbands and my (other) relatives]. The association of thepriory with such a small group of people and the description of Lucy asheres of Turold strongly hint at Lucy's parentage. But we can go furtherstill.
In their initial benefaction Ivo and Lucy referred to 'antecessorumsuorum Turoldi scilicet uxorisque eius regine' [our 'ancestors' Turoldand his wife]. The reference to Turold's wife indicates that some part ofhis landholding had come to him through his wife, something alsoindicated by the occurrence of William Malet amongst those who had heldthe Domesday lands of Lucy's first husband Ivo Taillebois before him. Theapparently vague Latin words antecessor and predecessor can both be usedto mean something like 'predecessor'. Each of them conveys a range ofvery precise meanings in different circumstances. The description ofTurold and his wife as antecessores of Ivo and Lucy may be compared tothe usage in a charter in the cartulary of Mont-Saint-Michel by which theAngevins Hugh Chalibot and his wife confirmed the grants of her father,who was described as antecessor noster. Other examples of this phraseshow clearly that it was used by a married man to describe the parentfrom whom his wife had inherited the property she brought to themarriage. Acting on her own account (normally after her husband's death),the heiress will often describe herself as the daughter of the parent herhusband described as antecessor noster. A rare use of the phrase was toindicate the couple's immediate predecessor, not her father but herbrother. In Lucy and Ivo's case the plurality of their antecessores,Turold and his wife, puts the matter beyond doubt. Lucy's parents wereindeed Turold the Sheriff and a daughter of William Malet.
K. S. B. Keats-Rohan
Linacre College
Oxford
[6214]
[S259]
The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton, 1968
[6215]
[S259]
The Plantagenet Ancestry, by William Henry Turton, 1968
[6216]
[S218]
Ancestral Roots Of Sixty Colonists Who Came To New Englan d Between 1623 And 1650
[6217]
[S218]
Ancestral Roots Of Sixty Colonists Who Came To New Englan d Between 1623 And 1650
[6218]
[S251]
Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom; GE Cokayne, Sutton Publishing Ltd
[6211]
[S252]
Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
[6212]
[S252]
Newsgroup: soc.genealogy.medieval, at groups - google.com
[27366]
[S218]
Ancestral Roots Of Sixty Colonists Who Came To New Englan d Between 1623 And 1650